We’re so excited to talk to you today―you’ve got such an interesting organization. Just give us the 30,000-foot view of your founder journey.
So, I was in the Marine Corps from 2000 to 2004 with the 3rd Battalion, 6th Marine, 2nd Marine Division. We were the first ones into Afghanistan. We took the Kandahar Airport in 2001, and then we took the embassy in Kabul after that.
When I got out of the Marine Corps, I experienced the same issues as so many of our veterans―substance abuse, violence without a place to put it, suicidal ideation, and all the rest of it. It was a recurring theme. And I didn't feel any style of alleviation from it pretty much whatsoever. I was taking medication, and that was helping a little bit. But I didn't really feel any profound change.
In 2010, I was given the opportunity to give a TEDx talk, which is certainly an honor. I decided to talk about a moment that happened to me in Kabul and by the nature of writing it, I felt a sense of ownership over it that I hadn't previously felt. And that feeling was compounded by magnitudes once I was able to perform it. There was just something about knowing that my story had been heard that was really profound to me.
I majored in writing for media at the University of South Carolina. And I was working with various artists in one way or another. Eventually, I began working with Dre and Sammy Lopez from PIENSA: Art Company and we would put on different art shows to raise money for non-profits.
After giving the TEDx talk and recognizing the power and profound impact of telling your story to a group of people rather than just writing it down yourself, I decided to put on an art show in 2012 called Bullets and Band-Aids. We interviewed veterans, and then I wrote their stories and then handed those off to civilian artists who then created something based on that. We were able to raise money for a non-profit that was focused on getting veterans to see counselors, one way or another.
In 2016, I was volunteering for another veteran-centric non-profit. In order to graduate from this fellowship, we had to do something to show that we were taking charge of who we are and how we affect positive change. And so, I decided to do the art show again in 2016.
For the first show, we printed out a book that had all of the written stories in it that were handed to people as they came in. For volume two, we added pictures of the actual artwork that had been created as well as the artist statements, just to make sure that everybody was recognized. It's very important for our organization to show appreciation to everyone who touches Bullets and Bandaids. We want more than just oxytocin and dopamine from a nonprofit. We want and prove that there can be an organic reciprocity that benefits us all.
By the way, the reason we're called Bullets and Bandaids is because it's said that armies march off of beans, bullets, and Band-Aids. We can't guarantee the beans aspect, so we just stuck with Bullets and Bandaids, and I love the name.
Our media company’s motto is, “where aha, meets oh shit.” Tell us about your biggest ‘aha’ moments.
In 2019, right before the pandemic hit, somebody suggested that I turn this into its own nonprofit. And all of a sudden, I realized that we were no longer limited to the bureaucracy of the other nonprofits that we dealt with, and we could push it as far as we wanted. This was the first aha moment. So, in 2019, we became a nonprofit with the chief watermark being to have two people from opposite ends of the same conflict be in one show. That's what we want to do.
So, we switched up the style of how we execute our program. Now we interview veterans and then we hand those interviews off to civilian writers who then create something through their own voice that is inspired by that interview. Then we hand that off to a civilian artist who then does the same. Both the writer and the artist have to stay true to the subject and context without undermining or being derogatory toward a group of people, or moving the conversation in a different direction than is intended. By doing this, we’re able to tear down social barriers between veterans and civilians by celebrating our common humanity through storytelling and artwork.
So, there’s an education and connectivity aspect to what you do?
Yes. And we provide a healing dialogue. For volume three, we had five different countries represented and 42 different pieces of artwork, covering ranks from private up to two-star generals, from World War II up to present day.
For volume four, which came out in 2023, we decided to lean into some of these addendums that we had added to the initial execution of our program. Those being, you don't have to have been in combat to be a veteran, and you don't have to have been in the military to be affected by war. Veterans are a common denominator of the melting pot of a country, and being a veteran is not exclusive to the United States. We do
this to make sure that we are showing on both a micro and macro scale that we, as a social species, are all in this together, and that there's responsibility as well as support within that understanding. In volume four, we had two people from opposite ends of the same conflict in one show because we had a man from the Netherlands who wrote a story about an Afghan interpreter who was in the Battle of Shok Valley, and the person that did the artwork is a sculptor from Russia. So, we had a Russian and an Afghan hanging out at a coffee table, who were 10 or 11 years old when Russia invaded Afghanistan.
These stories are really powerful.
Oh, absolutely! Most of the stories that we do are powerful. We want the veterans to have a platform to speak their truth. And through our process, through the program, as well as putting all of the stories and the artwork into a book and touring different museums, we can guarantee that their truth is heard.
For volume three, we started doing pop-up tours to different venues. And then volume four culminated in a six-month exhibit at the Columbia Museum of Art.
We were also able to add another aspect to the exhibit by having voiceovers done of the stories so that you could listen to them while looking at the artwork. One of the cool things about writing for these pieces is that they aren't necessarily just prose. Sometimes it's poetry. Sometimes it's a one-act play. Sometimes it's expressionist poetry, which is its own thing entirely. And this needs to be executed in the intended way of the writer. So, through this process, there can be a much more immersive aspect to what we do.
So, is this a traveling art exhibit?
Yes. We take the original works that were made, as well as the book containing the stories, the QR code, the artist statements, and the rest, on tour. If you do visit one of these different venues, you can pick up a book, or you can purchase one on our website at bulletsandbandaids.org. You can also download the first two iterations of the book for free.
You mentioned working in collaboration with other organizations. Were they veteran-focused nonprofits or just general community-based nonprofits? And talk to us about the red tape and bureaucracies of working with other non-profits. What were the barriers?
Well, funding was a significant barrier. The first time we did an art show, I wound up losing about a thousand dollars because all of that money was going to the nonprofit. I hadn't thought about reimbursing myself.
For the second show, we got regional press from all of the major press outlets from Georgia through North Carolina as well as international press from the Marine Corps Times. We had also set it up to sell the artwork. The artist would get a percentage of the sale and the rest would go to the nonprofit.
Over the span of three months, I asked the nonprofit, which was a veteran-centric nonprofit, to get veterans for us to interview beyond the ones that I was already working with directly. They provided me with zero. It was like they weren't even remotely interested in what I was doing.
I spent months working on this. So, I asked to be reimbursed for my time and expenses. I was told that they basically broke even – even though they had made a lot of money from this.
They got international press, which alone was certainly worth more than $10,000. Plus, they received actual funding. After being told this and receiving no help whatsoever, the guy who was running the program took me to Groucho's Deli for a sandwich and asked me to do it again.
We hear from the veteran community, as well as the entrepreneur community, that mental health is a huge issue. But founder mental health among veterans is an even more exasperated faction of our community. When you have big stressful moments, how do you overcome them?
We don't do anything a little bit, typically. There's definitely an adapt and overcome sort of mindset. And it absolutely takes fortitude in order to see your way through, just as it helps to be able to find support in your friends, in your family, and in your loved ones in general.
I've got very close friends that I can reach out to from time to time. This can be a lonely journey, but we just do whatever it is that we have to do to get by. I think there's a lot to be said for, and I literally created a nonprofit based on the healing aspects of dialogue. The idea of being able to talk to people about these things is very important. And also finding balance. That is so difficult for me to do.
If you had to sum up your your founder journey in one word, what would that word be and why?
Dynamic. Because it's really high highs and really low lows. It’s chaotic. And given my past, if I don't at least have my toes in some chaos, then I tend to try to create it.
What's been the most rewarding part of this journey for you?
When I was in Afghanistan, some bad things happened. I won't go into detail, just like for so many other people, it's very nuanced and difficult to talk about. I had friends on both sides that were killed. There was an Afghan who worked with us who wasn't Taliban, and over the span of months, I made friends with him. And then he wound up being killed in a really rough way. The same thing happened with a few guys in my old company.
But the instance with my Afghan friend really messed with me and painted my adulthood in such a profound way. To this day, I still feel little aftershocks of it. Right before volume three came out, which is our first iteration as a nonprofit, I was under so much stress that half of my body went numb. And I remember at the time thinking, well, I can go to the hospital and stop what I'm doing, or I can get this book to print. We were on a deadline.
After we completed volume four, we were on a panel at the Columbia Museum of Art on April 6th of last year. Jackie Adams, who is the education director for the museum, asked one of the Afghan interpreters how they felt about the Bullets and Bandaids, exhibit being next to a Muslim exhibit. And another Afghan that was in the audience said, can I answer this question? And he basically said, that when he signed up to be an interpreter, his entire family became targets. And then he moved to America and was given $500 and pointed in the direction of a hotel and that was it. And then he pointed at me and he said, “It's like Bullets and Bandaids found a zipper over my heart, pulled it down, and allowed me to tell my story to a country I fought for, and my friends died for.” And I felt as though electricity had gone through my body, just the shock of it.
I've heard other people say, ‘I wouldn't be here right now if it wasn't for Bullets and Bandaids.’ Or that the nature of what we're doing and the connections we're making are a form of grace.
And maybe like other entrepreneurs out there, I lose sight of that all the time. I’m so busy making sure that we look as good as we possibly can be at any given point in time that I sometimes lose sight. And it helps so much to be reminded of that.
Listen to our conversation with Robert on the Hello Chaos Podcast.
Connect with Robert on LinkedIn and follow Bullets and Bandaids on Instagram.
Artwork on cover created by: Vivianne Lee Carey (sculpture) and Rob Shaw (Gold gilding)
Artwork shown below created by: Melvin Toledo (left) and Marjorie Huwa (right)